PerePasqual
30th April 2007 16:19 UTC

Wrong "Valencian" translation
Hi,

I downloaded NSIS. One of the first thinks I checked first is if it was translated to my language. Surprisingly, on the "Contrib\Language files" folder I found a "Valencian" file.

I mean surprinsingly because I would expect to find translations to my language under the "Catalan" name, as Spanish users will find their translation under "Spanish" and not under "Mexican", "Argentinian" or "Iberian", or like the English speakers will rarely find (if ever) their translations under "British", "American" or "Australian" filenames.

The worst think came when I opened the file to check it. It's bad written. Lots of typos, mispelled words, wrong characters. No graphical accents. Nonexistant words. Nothing to do with the Valencian we all learn at the schools. Nothing to do with the language in wich the books I read regularly are written in.


No ISO code exist for a language called "valencian". You will find no references to it in any university or college in the entire world, appart from as a variation of Catalan. The syntax and spelling of valencian/catalan is regulated by a legal entity, depending on the local government, the Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua. You can find it at http://www.avl.gva.es/. If you don't believe me, you can try and ask them if the language file is correct.

As a Valencian, I ask you to please delete the file. The Catalan translation actually applies as the right Valencian one. But, if you want to keep them as separated languages, at least ask for a correct one. I can send you an updated, corrected and legal valencian translation.

Please take care of my comments. As a Valencian I feel ashamed of having found that file under the name of my mother tongue.

Sincerely,
Pere.

kichik
30th April 2007 17:42 UTC

See the following tracker item:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index...49&atid=373087

PerePasqual
1st May 2007 12:49 UTC

Yeah, I've read it. And so? The tracker is closed... And I guess the "translation" will continue to be shipped with NSIS.

Well, this guy has a website, http://www.softwarevalencia.com/. It seems he's the ONLY person in the world who is accomplishing all the "valencian" versions we can see on the programs wich support it, except for the ones that have been corrected by the people who, like me, has noticed this aberration. He simply is making publicity of his website by doing this. Other respectable software has rejected his "translation" and have refused to include it in the official packages.

It's a shame for the valencian people that someone can invent a language, without any suport for academic nor government nor social nor cultural autorities, and distribute "translations" for that invented language, with plenty of errors and ortographic typos.

As I stated in my previous message, no ISO code exist for the Valencian language. The official ortographic autorithy (http://www.avl.gva.es/) of the Valencian government (http://www.gva.es) has stated an official normative for Valencian, wich don't correspond to the file distributed with NSIS. You can contact also the universities of the Land of Valencia (http://www.uv.es, http://www.ua.es, http://www.uji.es, http://www.umh.es) and ask them about the question. You can look at this question, also, in the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencian).

My guess is that, if you don't want to take part in this absurd and political (rather than linguistic) question, you should attach to the OFFICIAL rule, wich, by the way, is supported in votes by 99% of valencian people, since the only party wich supports this teory has not representation in the local parlament because of lack of votes.

kichik
1st May 2007 21:56 UTC

I'd actually prefer removing both Catalan and Valencian, if you can't agree on something and continue to wage your political wars on top of NSIS.

PerePasqual
2nd May 2007 14:09 UTC

It seems you don't want to understand that mine are not political reasons. I'm valencian. I'm providing you both lingüistic and political (wich happen to coincide with the lingüistic ones) sources wich prove that your "valencian" translation is wrong.

So, at least, let me give you a corrected Valencian translation. Since I'm Valencian, a Valencian speaker, Valencian is my mother tongue, my entire academic life (since primary school) has been developed in Valencian, I have a Superior degree in Valencian and I've worked as a Valencian translator and normalizator at the Valencian Promotion Department in the Politechnics University of València, I can claim the version I'm sending you is accurate according to the official and the consensued by the lingüistic world normative. I hope you take it into account.

Note that I'm simply correcting the typos and errors in the file submitted by Bernardo Arlandis. I'm not redoing the translation, nor comparing it to the Catalan version, but simply correcting the mispellings and all. I have previously translated software to Valencian, and I've done it "for free", without a webpage to promote in mind (as seems to be Bernardo Arlandis purpose).

By the way, I've found that the # Language ID used is 33280, wich happens to be the one assigned to Unicode (?). Not surprising, since "Valencian" doesn't have a Language nor ISP code, as it's not an "independent" language... I'm correcting this, too.

If you take this file into account, I'll provide, too, a corrected file for the Modern UI plug-in.

As a final word: As far as I've seen, several users have complained about the bad quality of this file, and all of them have provided sources to prove their claim, as I've done, too. I'm surprised you urge us to agree with Roberto, wich has been THE ONLY ONE to support his file, the only one whom don't seem to agree with anything different to his proposal, the only one who hasn't provided any citation or sources to prove his "translation" is correct, and the only who provides "valencian" translation to the world. Please take that into account, and please, take at least a look to the Wikipedia link.

Regards,
Pere.

kichik
3rd May 2007 18:22 UTC

I don't want to get into this. Reach an agreement by June or both are removed.

PerePasqual
3rd May 2007 19:43 UTC

I'd like to reach an agreement, but who submitted the "valencian" translation won't. He even used characters that don't exist in the Valencian alphabet!

In fact, I'm almost sure he would be more glad if you remove both translations than if you keep both of them.

The agreement lies in the links I sent you. The academic autority of Valencian (Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua, http://www.avl.gva.es/) was created in 1998 just to reach an agreement and consensus in what concerns to Valencian. It was approved by 95% of population, and no political party with representation in the local Parlament was against it. And one the principal purposes was to end with the ortographic anarchy, wich is what Bernardo (he doesn't even has a Valencian name) is trying to do. By the way, they don't have political representation because the only parties that provide support to the ideas of an "arbitrary" Valencian ortography are extreme-right parties.

I don't want you to get into this, but I've sent you links to pages explaining how rules officially what is correct Valencian and what is not. It's not difficult to take a look. Anyone needs to, at least, "take a look" to decide what is correct and what not.

You are telling me to agree with an extremist, who doesn't even represents 1% of the valencian people, since his beliefs doesn't have political representation on the Parlament nor in the academic world, since his valencian doesn't correspond to the one wich one can learn in the school, buy books written in or attend to the classes in the university.

I started this thread because I found what claimed to be a translation to my language, wich proved to be full of bugs. As a lover of my culture and my language, and ashamed of knowing that there is a file so badly written under the name of my language, I tried to advise you and to repair the situation. But, in the last instance, if you decide not to attend my demands (and the other from valencian people who have complained), I don't see why my complains have to affect Catalan people by removing their translation. So, if someday, someone writes an "American" translation full of mispellings and people start complaining, will you remove both of them, the English and the "American" files?

kichik
3rd May 2007 19:47 UTC

Please stop, you've gone too far. I've asked to be left alone with this. I'll accept nothing but an understanding between you two or both will be removed and then nothing will be wrong for anyone.